Ep. 12 The Two-Week Vacation Test Featuring: John Fulwider

Bob Roark: This is the Exit Series. I’m Bob Rourke. This is for founders, brokers, attorneys, and valuation professionals. The people are in the room when the deal closed or before, talking about what happens next. This is the conversation nobody else is having. On this episode, we have John Fulweiter. He has a PhD, he’s a CEPA, and he’s the founder and CEO of Drive Growth Now, based in Lincoln, Nebraska. John has spent 15 years helping founding business owners get out of the center of everything. He’s also author of a book with a title that tells you exactly how he thinks. John, welcome. Tell us a bit about your work and who you serve.

John Fulwider: Bob, it is fantastic to be here. Thank you so much for the invitation and thanks to your audience for hearing a couple of words from me today. I work with business owners who are in the day today leading their businesses and they are wearing too many hats. fighting too many fires, they’re the bottleneck for too many decisions, and they’re the hub of key relationships. And as you indicated, I help them get out of the center of everything so that their businesses can run, grow, and increase in value without depending on them.

Bob Roark: You know, it’s n we’ve been around the business owner for a long time and you know, every business coach on earth says you work on the business, not in it. A business owner hears owner dependency and assume they’ve heard this before. You know, Feu, what’s d different about your approach or your claim?

John Fulwider: Yeah, you’re right that every business coach on earth does say work on the business, not in it. everyone else tells you what to stop. I tell you what to start. And that work to start is the work that only you can do. business owners and founding business owners, especially, are are called to create. business owners typically create value in the forms of new products and services, big new relationships. they they perfect the product or service that they create or deliver just in the in the act of delivering it and improving it. And that is the highest best use. Of a business owner’s time. So you hear work on the business, not in it. And maybe you think about documenting processes. Maybe you think about making long-term plans. And that stuff is important, but it’s not the end result. It’s a means to an end. And the end we want to get you back toward is doing the work that you love to do and are great at. which is typically creating new products and services and creating new and meaningful customer relationships.

Bob Roark: You know, John, you describe yourself as an owner decision discipline specialist. Had to slow down for that. That is a title I’ve not heard before. Well, you know, walk through what that means and why you chose those that specific phrase.

John Fulwider: That’s right. Well well first Bob, it’s a it’s a self-assigned title, so that would be why that you haven’t haven’t heard it before. so the overall answer is that owner decisions are the atomic unit. Of business success. Everything in your business revolves around you, the owner, making and protecting the right decision. So let’s break owner decision discipline specialists down part by part. Owner means you’re the owner of the business and you’re you’re leading the day-to-day. Decisions mean that the real work in your business isn’t letting go of everything so that you can, for instance, work on the business rather than in it. It’s deciding who gets to decide. You are the bottleneck for every decision right now, probably because you haven’t thought in a disciplined fashion. Here’s that third word, disciplined fashion. About how other people in your business can be making the decisions, the day-to-day decisions, even the leadership level decisions that would then free up your time, energy, and attention for the acts of creation I talked about earlier. Creating big new relationships with customers, creating culture at your business, creating new products and services. And then so owner decision discipline specialist. I’m a specialist in helping owners decide who can take some of the weight of making all those day-to-day decisions off your shoulders to free you up for bigger and better things. The the thing is, Bob, that owner dependence. that we referenced earlier, it’s not it’s not a problem of lacking great people. It’s that you have decision authority just sitting in your lap and on your shoulders while capable people are standing right there, just waiting to be given the permission to make decisions on their own. And when you do, give that give them that permission in a disciplined, careful, and structured fashion. They tend to run with it and amplify your efforts. That’s where you get that scale and that leverage that every business owner is always chasing.

Bob Roark: You know what came to mind as you were talking is I think, you know, a pint on on this, where the business owner starts out and said, I’m going to create and build a business. And I don’t know that it’s on their mind that they’re going to be at some point a leader in their business. Do you think that’s accurate? And if so, is you know, is there some portion in your process that starts to transition them from being the business owner? to the business leader? Or is that even accurate?

John Fulwider: Yeah, I mean I think that’s certainly right. Michael Gerber, Sort of made us all aware of this phenomenon in his book, The E-Myth, where he talked about how most businesses are started by technicians who really enjoy and are good at creating and delivering the product or service, and they’re not so good at the management and entrepreneurship portions of owning a business. So management leadership in in in Michael’s terms, those are those two are are one. And the same. When I think about leadership in the sense of a business owner who started who started from nothing, maybe with no formal business education, his leadership initially takes the form of leading by example, right? Doing all the things myself, wearing all the hats. Fighting all the fires, making all the decisions, being the hub of key relationships. And an early leadership move that that owner can make is identifying other people in the company who are who love to do and are great at some of those things that the owner has from necessity been doing themselves from the very start. And giving those people the opportunity to excel in in seats and decision making, in knowledge holding and in relationships that the the owner previously was holding on to themselves because of sheer necessity. Early in the business, there wasn’t anybody other than them to hold on to those things.

Bob Roark: You you spent fifteen years working with founding business owners. You know, what were you seeing in those owners that made you build your practice around getting them out of the center of the action?

John Fulwider: Yeah, yeah, Bob. So I’m a former EOS implementer and a former Pinnacle business guide. So I’ve spent hundreds of full day sessions with over 40 leadership teams of businesses helping them install operating systems like EOS and Pinnacle. And what happened is I kept helping them install these great operating systems and watching the business route right back to the owner. Anyway, we would create these fancy accountability charts, and it still ended up that while there was a pretty picture in theory that other people owned decision making authority, roles, knowledge, and relationships, in actual fact, it all routed back to the owner because the owner had not done the discipline and structured work of. Thinking of their own highest best use first, and making sure that everything was steadily and in a disciplined and intentional fashion taken off their head, off the top of their head in terms of the hats, off of their shoulders, out of their hands to free them up for what? You know, A lot of business owners when they when they see something like an accountability chart or an operating system, a lot of a lot of duties and roles and responsibilities get transferred away from them in theory, and they start to feel like, man, am I being put out to pasture? Like, who am I if I’m not solving all the problems, fighting all the fires, wearing all the hats? Answering all the questions. And so they kind of unconsciously hang on to those things because it’s it’s comforting, it’s how it’s what got them there, it’s what they’re used to. It even kind of revolves around their identity. And what they’re lacking is that why am I doing it peace? And the why am I doing it peace is to have the freedom to create. To do the highest best use of your time and energy and attention as a business owner. And that is being what I call the creator of economic opportunity instead of the default seat that most business owners occupy, which is the chief everything officer.

Bob Roark: That’s a good term. Cheap ev cheap everything, you betcha. you talk about the freedom gap and that’s the space between the business someone built in the life that they’re actually that actually won. For someone that hears that for the first time, what does that gap look like when you walk into the room with the owner that’s stuck in that gap?

John Fulwider: Yeah, it looks like it looks like the space between exhaustion and energized growth. When when people come to me, they’ve been contemplating selling in part just to get out of this and be done with it. They might not call it burnout. They may sort of look look with a side eye on the term burnout because you know they’ve they’ve made their business from the start by just being the hardest worker. And so it it may rub them a little wrong to think, man, this business has really wrung me dry, has really tired me out. But Bob, it’s it’s sad the number of business owners who kind of get to this point of working, working, working, working, working, wearing all those hats, fighting all those fires. And finally they hit a wall and they say, man, You know, I’m just gonna, I’m just gonna sell this thing to be done with it. That’s a tremendous loss because if you are if you are at that point where you’re sort of being you’re sort of being forced to sell, you’re you’re not gonna sell on terms that are that are great for you. And so business owners got into business for freedom. They they got into business to to work on their own terms and to create on their own terms. So when we can get them the freedom to work in their God-given creative genius of inventing new products and services, building great relationships with vendors, customers, lenders, strategic partners, you know, really digging deep in culture. When we can get them that freedom back, we can get them their energy back. And what I often see is when Clients come to work with me, they move from wanting to sell to pursuing another option that that I talk about called keeping the business and leaving the grind. And then some of them even go up to another option, they get a second win and they say, Hey, let’s proceed with growing this thing aggressively, because I’ve got my energy and I’ve got my freedom back.

Bob Roark: Your line is freedom is not found after you sell. It is found when you let go. Most exit planners are focused on the transaction right up to the wire. You’re focused on something that happens before the transaction. You know, talk me through that distinction.

John Fulwider: Yeah. I might I I know that your audience includes not not only business owners but also professional advisors. So for this question, Bob, I I might speak first to the professional advisors. And that is that you know, when when bit when most advisors, exit planners are focused on the transaction, my work comes way before in preparing for a successful. Transaction. So I work to eliminate owner dependence, which your professional advisor listeners and several of your business owner listeners will know is one of the

Bob Roark: Yeah.

John Fulwider: top three top five value killers. it can make your business completely unsellable, or it can also make it sell for a much lower multiple than you could get if your business was owner independent. Meaning it could run, grow, and increase in value without your day-to-day involvement. So going back to freedom is not found after you sell, it’s found when you let go. Let me turn my attention back to the business owners in your audience. if you sell to escape burnout, you’re gonna sell on bad terms at a discount. And hand your problem to the buyer. If it’s even sellable at all, because I argue your business must be free from you, from your day-to-day involvement before you’re free to sell it. And then there’s a a sort of fun distinction I like to offer, a fun kind of kill two birds with one stone insight that I might offer. And that’s that unstuck equals sellable. It’s the same work. So if you work toward getting your freedom back, if you work toward getting out of the day to day, so that you could keep the business and leave the grind, or so that you could grow aggressively, it’s the same work. It all revolves around you transferring ownership of decision authority. roles, knowledge, and relationships to get you out of the center of everything. And when you do, that makes your business growable. It makes it able for you to exit the day-to-day while keeping the business. And it makes it sellable.

Bob Roark: You you talk about naming your unique work, the work only the owner can do. Many owners are in the impression that everything is their unique work. How do you help that owner see the difference between what’s actually theirs and what they’ve just been holding on to?

John Fulwider: That’s right. one way is just by drawing their attention to the work that I do, which is challenging business owners to transfer decision authority, roles, knowledge, and relationships out of their heads and hands and into the business. And Bob, it’s just been my experience that once an owner starts. Looking at their organization through this lens with fresh eyes, they start to see people in their company who have the capacity to receive the permission to make decisions, who have the capacity to receive real ownership of real results, who have the capacity to learn. the the the the technician aspects of your job that that you’ve mastered and you didn’t think were teachable but actually were and then even your big relationships it’s even possible to transfer the most important key customer relationships that you’ve been cultivating for 25 to 30 years so simply thinking in those terms and and having your coach challenge you to Transfer those to others helps you identify, it’s it’s not just me. There’s these people I’ve been paying who are actually not just capable, but they’re eager to take on more. And we do that in a disciplined, structured, and careful fashion. And we’re often really pleasantly surprised. about their their capability and their eagerness to take on that additional responsibility.

Bob Roark: Exit what is not yours to carry. You frame delegation as generosity, not abdication. That’s a different way to frame or think about letting go. How did that arrive or where did it come from?

John Fulwider: Yeah, it originally came from my work with EOS. fans of the entrepreneurial operating system from Geno Wickman’s book Traction will remember the term delegate and elevate. So delegate and elevate when you delegate decision authority, a role, some knowledge, or a relationship, you elevate two people. First, you elevate that person because you’re taking, say, a owner level or senior leader level task responsibility or result, and you’re giving it to someone lower on the accountability chart, maybe even an individual contributor. So you are you are elevating their level of responsibility, you’re elevating Their importance in your eyes and in their eyes. Perhaps more importantly, you’re

Bob Roark: Yeah.

John Fulwider: elevating yourself because you’re freeing up time, energy, and attention to be the CEO,

Bob Roark: Yeah, that’s true.

John Fulwider: the creator of economic opportunity, and you’re freeing yourself from being the chief everything officer. So that’s where the concept originally came from. And

Bob Roark: Mm.

John Fulwider: you know, I’ve I’ve expanded on it since then with with a couple of thoughts. delegation isn’t dumping, it’s generosity. It’s a it’s a gift, it’s giving the work to the person it actually belongs to. And here I’ll reference another book by Dan Sullivan called Who Not How. Dan Sullivan and and Benjamin Hardy, the book Who Not How. Basically, the book says when something hard needs done, don’t figure out how to do it. Instead, find someone who is who already knows how to do it and is great at it and give it to them. The the thing about the the wonderful world of God’s diversity here, Bob, is that For every task you hate to do and are bad at, or even for every task that you like to do and are good at, but are not great at, there is somebody who loves to do and is great at it. So holding on to every hat, every decision, every bit of knowledge, every relationship, it doesn’t protect your team. It stunts their growth. And it holds you and it holds them and it holds the company back.

Bob Roark: You know, John, you’ve mentioned that. Tell me about an owner that you worked with who was stuck in the center of everything. You helped them get out. What did the before and after look like, not just for the business only, but also for that owner as a person?

John Fulwider: Well, I’ll I’ll tell a I’ll tell a recent story of a of a fun win that we had, and then I’ll then I’ll unpack kind of how we got there. So a someone in the home services industry that I work with was already on a family vacation at the lake house when one of their employees badly, just badly bought botched an order with a key customer. And key customer, you know, this owner had Been developing this relationship for 20, 30 years and everything. And so the owner, you know, like calls back to the office and says, I’m I’m I’m headed back from the lake house. I’m gonna come in and fix this. And their their general manager and head of operations came together and fixed it themselves before the owner could you know get back from vacation, get back to the office. Here’s why, because they wanted the owner to have that time away. They knew, possibly better than the owner did, how good it is for the business when the owner steps back and returns with renewed energy. They wanted that. For the owner. They wanted that for the business. They wanted that for themselves, the owner coming back with renewed energy. And so they made the decisions, they took the actions to fix the problem themselves. Now, here’s where that owner was when we started working together. The owner was the chief everything officer. first, hub of all key relationships. you know, knows and is friends with the the heads of the supplier companies has established long-term supplier relationships. knows and is friends with has long relationships with the customers, and knows is friends with, has has long-standing relationships with the subcontractors. And so that owner has been steadily, carefully, and deliberately. Transferring those relationships to, in this case, a new head of sales. The owner was also the owner of all of the knowledge, like how to quote jobs profitably, and is transferring that knowledge from out of his head and into the business. And finally,

Bob Roark: Yeah.

John Fulwider: the owner was the wearer of all the hats, including head of sales. And you know, sort of default head of operations and is transferring all of that to a general manager, head of operations, and head of sales. And this is I’ll say one more thing about this particular company. You know, they came to me thinking it’s time to sell. And then as we worked together, they changed their mind and said, you know what? We kind of like that keep the business and leave the grind piece. Let’s get out of day-to-day management, but keep the company. exercise some long-term vision, right? and and broad direction, but let the let the GM run the day-to-day while we continue to own it. And then they changed their mind again and said, you know what? Let’s grow aggressively and double volume in

Bob Roark: Mm-hmm.

John Fulwider: the next one or two years. So they went from you know, kind of kind of getting to the end of their energy levels to deciding to keep it at a high level role to growing aggressively by doubling volume all in the about 26 weeks or so that we’ve been working together.

Bob Roark: You know, earlier you said that owner decisions are the atomic unit of business success. Specifically, give me a decision that the owner made that changes everything and one they obsess over that matters far less than they think.

John Fulwider: Yeah, the the key decision to make is the decision that I will no longer be at the center of everything. And to get more precise with that, I will no longer make all the decisions. I will no longer wear all the hats. I will no longer be the only one who knows. And I will no longer be The hub of key relationships. That is that is the key decision that unlocks everything else. And so an overrated decision to take the second part of your question, Bob, is the accountability chart. Look, I love accountability charts. I used to be an EOS implementer. Accountability chart is one of the five foundational tools for a reason. It’s genuinely important. You’ve got to document your vision of the right and best structure to get us where we are growing. But You can build a beautiful accountability chart and still be the answer to every question in the building. The chart doesn’t matter until you let a real decision or real ownership of results live inside one of those boxes on the accountability chart without reaching back in. The accountability chart is a tool that supports your decision to get out of the center. It won’t work though if you’ve let go on paper, but not in practice.

Bob Roark: John, you’re brought in to work with owners who are successful by many external measures, but they’re privately just worn out. What is the conversation like the first time they actually admit out loud that the business they built is running them, not vice versa?

John Fulwider: Yeah, I you know, the the conversation is typically pretty pretty free-flowing, pretty open and honest, gets gets right down to the facts pretty quick. These are these are smart, self-aware business owners. They they know what’s going on and they they haven’t found a way to fix it yet, or they haven’t prioritized fixing it yet. And so when they when they come to me, typically on referral from one of their financial advisors or typically after seeing me speak to one of their peer groups, they’re ready to have a conversation about what it would look like to no longer be at the center of everything. And I I would like to think that the you know, sort of simplicity and practical nature of my approach would would be appealing to a a no nonsense results-oriented business owner because you know there’s there’s not a lot of there’s not a lot of theory, there’s not a lot of not a lot of fluff here. It’s just let’s make transfers. Let’s transfer decision authority, roles, knowledge, and relationships out of your heads and hands and into the business. And when we do, if you if you are tired, if you are a little bit worn out, if you were kind of thinking of selling just to be rid of it, you will quickly discover that you got your energy back. Now, you still want to sell when you’ve got your energy back? Fantastic. You’re going to be able to sell from a position of strength, selling to whom you want on the terms you want for the price you want.

Bob Roark: You know, when the owner finally gets out of the center of everything and the business keeps running without them, some feel relief and some feel perhaps lost. What do you see more often and what do you think determines which route they take?

John Fulwider: Feeling lost is a real thing. I’d like to think that an owner working with me or another financial advisor who’s who’s trained in exit planning would not feel lost. Because

Bob Roark: Yeah.

John Fulwider: I and other advisors, other coaches who are trained in exit planning, know how key identity is to a business owner’s successful stepping back from the day to day and a successful sale of their business. the Exit Planning Institute, which trained me in exit planning. Finds that 75% of business owners profoundly regret their decision to sell just a year after the transaction. And that’s for a couple of reasons. one speaks to what you were indicating, Bob. They didn’t have a plan for what’s next, for how they would find meaning and purpose when they’re no longer the business owner. Going from business owner to not business owner is a profound identity shift, right? You’re you’re no longer greeted walking into a room by 25 to 100 people saying, hi boss, you know, hi Mr. Rourke. you’re no longer called by the Chamber of Commerce to you know, sponsor the golf scrambles. you know, you’re You’re no longer called by your suppliers and your subs looking looking for additional work. It it goes from like your phone ringing off the hook to the phone not ringing at all. So the people who work with me, we are we’re weaving in that planning about what’s next through all of our conversations. It’s always a main topic of concern. And yeah, I think I’ll I think I’ll leave it at that.

Bob Roark: Okay. Your approach is explicitly faith informed. You talk about stewardship, trusting God’s design, about the idea that God owns your business. For founders never thought about their business that way. What changes when they start?

John Fulwider: Yeah, I mean it’s it’s what changed for me, Bob. by by God’s grace and the power of his Holy Spirit, I’ve been a Christian for 34 years and a business owner for 16 years. And it took me until last year to really believe that God owns my business. I I got involved with an organization called Faith Driven Entrepreneur. they have a a book on that of that title, and they’ve got a a a national conference that they that they put on on that topic. And one of their key teachings is that that God owns your business. And and what that ultimately meant for for me is it was really freeing because you know, if the if the business is not ultimately mine. I don’t have to carry it like it is. and then letting go stops feeling reckless and starts feeling faithful, you know, stewarding the resources that God has given me, knowing that ultimately those resources are his and not mine.

Bob Roark: You’ve coached owners through exits where they stayed free afterwards and ones where they got pulled back in. What was the difference between the two? And is it the system they built or something inside of them that flipped the switch back the other way?

John Fulwider: good question. I I wanna make sure I heard the first part correctly, Bob. You said I’ve I’ve worked with owners who who stayed through exits. Was that what you said?

Bob Roark: Stay free stayed free after exit. And then once they

John Fulwider: Yeah, yes.

Bob Roark: got pulled back in, you know, what’s the difference between those two two cohorts?

John Fulwider: Stayed free after exit and those who got pulled in. And are you talking specifically about people who stayed free after selling or stayed free after exiting the day today?

Bob Roark: Exiting after the day to day.

John Fulwider: Yeah, okay, good, good, thank you. well, one thing that would pull somebody back in after exiting the day today would be a good thing, which would be a major strategic opportunity, such as acquiring a competitor, expanding into a new territory or a product line that could well pull you back into the day today, depending on The nature of the opportunity and depending on the the staffing that you have. When I when I think about the the staffing piece, I I like to think of taking a product or service from an idea and into the marketplace in three stages. And these stages are from Dan Sullivan, the author of that Who Not How book that I referenced earlier. The the three stages are make it up. Make it real and make it recur. And you could be pulled back into the day-to-day if you need to both make it up and make it real. And then hand it off to your your leadership team to make recur. another reason that you could be pulled back into the center of everything is that your your right hand person who is leading the company in the day to day so that you can be chairperson of the board leaves or or dies for for some reason. And so that’s where continuity planning. is an especially useful tool for you. and it’s where it’s where your work on the accountability chart that you’ll do as part of running some business operating system in your company comes in handy because accountability charts should also be continuity planning tools. They should constantly be showing. For each seat on the accountability chart, what is our what’s our continuity plan for replacing that person in the event of an accident, they’re they’re getting a bad case of better off or elsewhere, paternity leave, maternity leave, temporary disability, things of that nature. So to summarize, two things that could pull you back into the center are one, a really great opportunity, and two, Losing a key person who’s running the day today while you are chairperson of the board.

Bob Roark: John, if someone’s listening is a founding business owner and they build something successful, but they can’t step away from it and they feel the gap between the business and the life they want, how do they find you and what does that first conversation look like?

John Fulwider: Yeah. I’m I’m pretty easy to find. you can search my name, John Fulwiter, and that will get you to my my LinkedIn profile. you can go directly to my website, driverowthnow.com. That’s drivegrowthnow.com, and just go to the about page to learn a little bit more about me. First conversation is just always about what do you want and and when do you want it. you know, I I typically start off with what’s called I keep referencing Dan Sullivan because he’s my coach and I’m a big fan of his. He’s got something called the Dan Sullivan question. And so it goes like this. I’ll pretend that I’m asking you, Bob. Bob, say it’s say it’s three years from now. and we’re sitting together celebrating the tremendous progress that that you’ve made, what needs to have changed for you personally and professionally over those three years in order for you to feel tremendously happy with your progress? And then then, Bob, when when you or an owner I’m on the phone with unpack. what needs to change for them personally and professionally. That typically is the list of opportunities that they want to seize and challenges that they that they want to overcome. And then we talk through what’s holding you back. And then we see if what’s holding you back is being at the center of everything. And if that is, then we we talk about how I can help.

Bob Roark: You know, for the business owner that’s listening right now and they recognize themselves in what we’ve been talking about, what’s the one question that they should ask themselves before they go to sleep tonight?

John Fulwider: could I take a two-week vacation without my phone? If the answer is no, your business depends on you. You will find it difficult to sell your business, and you’ll find it difficult to stick with your business in the long term. And I’d argue you’d also negatively affect the growth prospects of your business because getting away from the day-to-day for a vacation. Man, it is a reward for your hard work, and it is absolutely an opportunity to be with your family, to make great memories with your spouse, your kids, and so on. It’s also a renewal of your vital creative energy. If you are stuck in the day today, wearing all the hats, making all the decisions, holding all the knowledge, being the hub of key relationships, you are you don’t have the time, energy, and attention to think the big thoughts that can really make a transformational difference for your business. If you’re stuck in the day-to-day, you are the chief everything officer when you could be the creator of economic opportunity. So I like to use the two-week vacation test as a question to ask yourself. Could you take a two-week vacation with your phone off? If not, come talk to me. And actually, at the end of our 13-week intensive, the get out of the center intensive, we end with a vacation challenge. Ideally, take two weeks off. Maybe three three days, maybe five, with your phone off. Do it carefully and deliberately. Set your team up for success before you leave. Try to stay disconnected as much as you can. Come back. Figure out what broke while you were gone. Spoiler alert, not much. But there will be a few things. Make a list, fix those things. And then go on vacation again and rinse and repeat until your business is completely independent of you. And also far more sellable at a far higher multiple if you choose to go that way.

Bob Roark: You know, I I honestly I think that’s the irony for many business owners. It you know, is that they build the business, they think that they are the business and they’re very important. But exiting the day to day, which seems to be the antithesis of that thought process, actually creates more value for them. Do you do you think they understand the dynamic of why that is?

John Fulwider: Not yet. And there’s there’s no reason necessarily to understand it. you know, these thinking about the thinking about that future of my business, like that’s that’s not in the job description. The the the standard job description of a business owner is to think about the next quarter. The next year. Maybe for those who are wisely running an operating system like EOS, they think about their three-year picture and their their 10-year target. So maybe they’re thinking in those time frames, but they’re they’re typically not thinking about exiting the day today. They’re typically not thinking about the sellability because most business owners only sell their business one time. And so

Bob Roark: Yeah.

John Fulwider: they they think. Unfortunately, wrongly, but they think, hey, when I’m when I’m ready to sell it, you know, it’ll take like six months, and I’ll I’ll get what I think it’s worth. I’ll get what my friend Bob on the golf course got for his business. The unfortunate reality is that selling your business

Bob Roark: Yeah.

John Fulwider: requires you to be out of the day today because people buying businesses they want to buy. Well-oiled, predictably running cash machines. They don’t want to buy you. And if they have to buy you, you’re gonna you’re gonna take a real haircut on the valuation of your business. That is, you’re gonna sell it at a discount, and you’re gonna be stuck in an owner earnout period where you’re essentially partly financing their. Purchase of your business by their holding back as a performance bonus some of what your business is worth. And then you’re going to have to perform as an employee in that business, hitting somebody else’s targets in order to get your earnout. A lot of business owners are kind of independent-minded, do-it-my-way people, and they they they don’t work so well in that environment. Works for some, doesn’t work for others. It’s important to know before you get yourself like kind of stuck into a situation like that, it’s important to know whether you would thrive working for someone else. A lot of the people I work with, the answer’s no.

Bob Roark: John, this has been been fun. I enjoy your perspective and your passion. You know, thanks for spending your time and sharing your views, you know, the the wealth of all the EOS background and working with the business owners. You know, so the episode valuable, useful. So for whether you’re a founder pre- or post-Exit or the professional serving that business owner, you know, there’s wisdom and experience in here. With that being said, this is the Exit series. If you know of a founder whose soldier is about to, or a broker, an attorney, or a value accelerator has been across the table at the closing or about to be, send them this episode and subscribe wherever you listen, and we’ll see you next time.