Ep. 10 Unlocking the Door to Freedom Featuring: Chuck Mohler

Bob Roark: This is the Exit Series. I’m Bob Rourke. This is for founders, brokers, attorneys, and valuation professionals, the people who are in the room when the deal closed or before talking about what happens next. On this episode, we have Chuck Moller. He’s the founder and president of Eagle Corporate Advisors based in Las Vegas. Chuck holds six credentials: CPA, C G A, C E P A, C V G A, C N A A, and C V A. All built from a CPA foundation. He spent over 30 years working with privately held businesses on value, growth, exit planning, and MA. He’s an author of The Unlocking the Door to Freedom, A Proven Path to Real Business Value and a Clearer Future. Chuck, welcome. Tell us a bit about your firm and who you serve.

Chuck Mohler: thank you, Bob. Equal Corporate Advisors works with lower middle market companies and their their founders, owners in primarily preparing them for that exit or transition. Usually there’s a gap that they have in the value of their business

Bob Roark: Yeah.

Chuck Mohler: in preparing it before that exit. So we will work first on the business side, working to prepare the or increase the value of the business so they’re ready to go to market. And secondly work with them individually on their personal side to be ready for that transition and transaction when when they elect to go through that.

Bob Roark: Chuck, I yeah, you have an interesting past. and and for the folks out there, get a copy of the book. It’ll walk you through some of the work you did as a a very young man in the family. But how did you end up doing this work? You started a CPA, you know, an accounting foundation. How did you get from accounting to exit planning in the current services? What was that sequence? What drove it?

Chuck Mohler: started off with the CPA. My dad, my uncle, other family members were in the the CPA world. So started there as a foundation and used that basically as a stepping stone similar to going through high school. Tried tried not to stay in the traditional CPA role for very long. Before long I was dealing in a lot of transactional work, lending, land development, private money type stuff. getting funds from private investors, individuals, accounting clients who had money to invest and and putting them with borrowers, developers and other business owners that needed funds. So dealt with a lot of what I refer to as transactional work. However, in that process, I was doing a lot of advisory with the clients that were loaning the money and how did they come up with resources and how do they keep investing more outside of their business? On the other side with the borrowers developers was doing a lot of advisory work with them on how to use the money and how to pay it back. So over time, that advisory world became what I enjoyed more of and that relationship-based work and really getting to know what it is people wanted and needed and where I could guide them. From there, and what I was working with people on their transitions came across the Exit Planning Institute and their CEPA designation. So that’s when I moved into more of the designations away from the traditional compliance CPA type work into the exit planning. From there dove deeper into the CVGA or the Certified Value Growth Advisor to actually improve that value rather than just leave it stagnant and see what other people were teaching and learning on that. Then rolled into okay now. Let’s be more prepared for the transaction. And that was the the CMAA or the certified merger and acquisition advisor designation to help round that out. And the last one of those was the certified valuation analyst, and that was having an idea of what I was doing to help people exit, what I was doing to help people understand the transaction. And if I’m trying to help them build value and be ready for that. was then okay, how are the actual valuation specialists calculating value both quantitatively and qualitatively, rather than just looking at the report, how are they generating that report and what’s going into that so that then I could help reverse engineer and build the companies to build value to match what they wanted coming out of your traditional valuation report. So that was kind of the life cycle of moving through different platforms of education to to ensure that I could be well rounded in in helping these business owners be prepared for their their exit and and the life beyond.

Bob Roark: You know, with with all of that and the continuing education that comes along with all of that, I suspect, was there one that you thought was pivotal in pointing you more toward what you’re doing now than another in those all that designation?

Chuck Mohler: Those naturally the CPA gives you a very strong foundation and base to work from. And all the rest just kind of piggyback on that. But since that CPA one, probably of the others that is the one I rely on more and more too, and that aligns with what I’m I’m primarily doing and enjoy doing, is that certified value growth advisor, that C VGA one. where it’s it’s okay, here’s how we’re gonna dive in and implement the work to actually take business owners from A to Z.

Bob Roark: You know, in and in the in the previous role where you were doing a lot of transaction works, raising money, finding investors and and finding the folks and so on, how do you think that makes you different when you come to talk to that business owner, having done that already?

Chuck Mohler: I have been through millions or hundreds of millions of dollars of of transactions, in that case mostly real estate based or development based, but to understand the the dollars, what happens with a closing and escrow, what people are doing on due diligence, because I was doing the due diligence in those transactions. So it kind of gives me a different perspective in Most businesses deal with real estate in some fashion and a lot of people don’t have that real estate background that they’re working with people on. So that gives me a different perspective than a lot of people and that that due diligence aspect of dealing with loan transactions to then say the significance or the importance of looking out for the items that could create risks or problems there. So that that early part of my career I think plays in that most people don’t have that I would say rounds me out differently than someone else.

Bob Roark: You know, what when you take on a a new client at Eagle Corporate Advisors, what’s the first thing that you assess that maybe is not necessarily on any particular checklist?

Chuck Mohler: it’s gonna be an answer that may surprise you and others, but the first thing that I’m I’m looking for is humble, teachable and focused. Are are they humble enough, teachable enough, and focused enough to actually make or are humble, teachable, and focused? Are they in a position where they’ve hit the wall a few times and realize that they can’t do it all themselves and that they need to bring in outside professional help and that they’re not running all over in too many different directions that we can actually focus and make progress? So done it long enough that I’ve realized that if I don’t believe someone fits into those criteria. And that they stay within the criteria, I’m wasting my time and they’re wasting their time. So it’s it’s an area that most people don’t think of and look, but it’s like, okay, are we going to do this or not?

Bob Roark: Coachable matters for sure. You know, I I think about that and if they want to argue every step of the way, you go, we’re just not a match. Yeah.

Chuck Mohler: Correct. And I I don’t know it all. And they don’t know it all. We’ve all got strengths and weaknesses, but it’s a collaborative effort. But if we’re not going be in tune with each other on on what the goal is, then it’s it’s it’s time to make progress.

Bob Roark: yeah, I Well it’s already a hard job.

Chuck Mohler: That is for sure.

Bob Roark: You know, y y you’ve been in the room at the closings where you understand the role of the CPA and evaluation analysts and the MA advisor. You know, most owners have more than one person that fills those seats. You know, for you, given your experience, what do you see from kind of that combined seat experience that maybe the individual specialist might miss?

Chuck Mohler: I would say in that respect is most of those individual specialists are are focused on their item, their their particular thing, whether it’s the the CPA or the valuation person, it can be even the banker or just anyone else in a professional’s or in a a professional in a business owner’s life. And where I’ve done the training or have dealt with more of these aspects than many people, it’s easier for me to step back and see the big picture and then be able to Talk the language or communicate with those different professionals and say, here’s what I need, here’s what I don’t need, here’s what the other party needs, and here’s why. And so it’s it’s a little bit easier to orchestrate what’s happening and and why it’s important to the other parties because people get so hung up on their own role and why it’s working and not realizing that it’s creating an obstacle for, say, one of the other parties in the transaction or in the Actual closing.

Bob Roark: The the band leader, I’m thinking. Orchestrator, for sure. Yeah.

Chuck Mohler: Yeah. Yeah, we use that word orchestra, but I don’t know much about music or band.

Bob Roark: Yeah, nobody’s asked me to sing lately lately either. So yeah, I would be there. You know, you know, at the at the moment that the wire clears, what do you typically observe in that owner? And and does it match basically what the owner thought that would feel like or expect to feel?

Chuck Mohler: for the first few hours or days, yes. They’re you know, ’cause you’re prepping and telling and and they’re they’re initially what I’ll call relieved. Will this deal actually close? Will will this actually happen and all this brain damage that I’m doing through due diligence and asking questions and why are they second guessing things that they believe are pretty natural? So the first first part is is relief. It’s like, I actually made it and it’s done. And then there’s the excitement of, okay, the money’s actually in my account. And you can have that that nice dinner and celebrate. That those are you know nice and expected. It it’s it’s down the road then that and it’s it varies. It’s three months, six months later that then it’s like, this this is this is different. And if they’re Still involved in the business through some type of employment agreement or retention agreement or whatever it is, they start to realize that they’re no longer the boss. And no matter how much you’ve told them, they start to squirm and say, This isn’t what I want. Or on the other end of the spectrum, when they’re not involved and it it’s truly 100% cash out, they’re done, and they they don’t need to be in the day to day operations. They start if you haven’t prepared them, they start wondering really what’s next. And and they it’s what can I do? What can I find that No matter how much you tell them, they don’t quite grasp it if you haven’t prepared them and had them ready for getting involved in something beyond the business. If if they’re prepared and running towards something, and they’ve had the freedom to just let the business go and have stepped away from the business pre-transaction, it flows so much better, and they they actually enjoy that.

Bob Roark: I always think so you kinda gotta train up for that. Go what are you gonna do next? Train up a little bit and get ready. Yeah.

Chuck Mohler: Yeah, it can’t be a flip of the switch. There there’s a there’s a mental and a physical aspect of of moving on before the wire hits.

Bob Roark: Yeah. Apologies. Well, I thought I had that taken care of. All right. Walk me through how you think about the relationship between what the business is worth today, what the owner’s wealth looks like currently outside the business, and you know, and then what they want the future to be. How do those those things interact with you and how you advise and in your practice?

Chuck Mohler: So with that, I I generally would think of kind of the process that we go through and we talk about four gaps. And I think of it as the profit gap, the value gap, the wealth gap, and the time gap. And so typically as we first interact with people, there’s the profit gap of what the business is making versus what it could be making, the value

Bob Roark: Mm-hmm.

Chuck Mohler: gap of what it’s worth today versus what it could and should be be making or valued at because it’s typically run as an what I refer to as a lifestyle business versus an enterprise. The third gap being a wealth gap of what is their current wealth today with their business, their house, their toys You know, whatever it may be, their investment accounts, versus what the wealth they need to live the third phase of their life. Those first three gaps are typically apparent once you go through and kind of do a quick analysis. The time gap is how much time is it going to take to build the bridges and cross those bridges to enjoy that third phase of their life. It’s not the time left until they’re in the grave, but it’s the time until they get where they want. And there will be hardships and challenges and setbacks as Trying to build those bridges over those other three gaps of profit value and wealth. Now, the what the business is worth today, in relationship to what their wealth looks outside of the business, typically most of our private business owners have a great majority of their wealth locked up non-liquid in their private business. And and they got into business or they’re in business for that American dream to hit the big lottery when they sell their business and then they’re gonna retire because they’re not typically putting a lot of their assets, they’re not diversifying out of their business in a lot of cases. So in order to get to that future value, we’ve got to build up the business value so that upon a transaction. net of debt, net of taxes, everything else, they’ve got enough after for their future that they can enjoy that that third part. And the and the trick is most of them carry on and think it’s all going to work out, but they’ve never stopped to calculate what I refer to as that wealth gap. And until they’ve figured out that wealth gap and whether they’ve crossed that, they really don’t have the choice or the freedom to choose whether they stay in the business or get out of the business or transition or sell it or anything else. They they typically are on that treadmill 10, 20, 30 years in that business. And if they’re not proactively trying to grow the value of that business, They they could worn out, get tired, want to sell, whatever, and they’re not prepared mentally, personally, emotionally, or the business is not ready to to actually be attractive enough or pass the due diligence. So it’s it’s kind of shifting to where they’re intentionally working on getting it ready for a transition long before an actual transaction.

Bob Roark: Do do you think that the business owners have an accurate gauge on how long it takes to transition from the job to an enterprise?

Chuck Mohler: No. It it it takes longer than they ever expect. And got one client that has debated about the idea of that transition for a number of years and it’s like, okay, I’m going to bring in this potential manager that will be the next CEO and you go eighteen months, two years, and it’s like, that one guy’s not working, and all of a sudden they’ve left. And then you do it again and then you do it again. And so until you find someone that fits the culture and the standards. it’s hard for them to let go replacing one for one. And so try and try and avoid them working on one for one. I try and get to go one to many and build up a executive team or gr a committee so that the company be can be run by a group of people, not just one individual.

Bob Roark: You know, I was I was struck by one of the examples in your book. And, you know, I I think about walking into an organization, go, exactly where do you start? And you know, you go like that and there’s so many places to go. And this one was a plumbing company. And you had said, We’re gonna do this for ninety days. I think it was the Monday morning twenty minute meeting.

Chuck Mohler: Mm-hmm.

Bob Roark: Can you you know, I I I gotta believe that’s a visceral response to what you s what you saw happen. You know, from the first meeting that you go, this is like I heard in cats, to the the end result after ninety days. Can you walk through that a bit?

Chuck Mohler: I yes, the the first time you bring up the idea of them huddling or meeting on a regular basis and vetting out where they stand, what they’re working on, what are they stuck on type things, we don’t have time for that. It’s a waste of time, it’s not worth it. when are we gonna fit it in? Our schedules don’t work. So there there’s always an initial pushback. And if you can just push hard enough long enough that eventually they start doing it and And it all comes from them saying, I keep getting interrupted, I keep getting interrupted, and everyone’s there. And helping them get into a cycle of if they can have a touch point once every twenty four hours with the people, make their short list of what their interactions are, what their questions are of that other party, so that when they have their next little visit, here’s items that I need to visit on, and they’re not interrupting them all day long. So I was meeting with a client or or a client of an associate this last week, and one of the employees kept complaining, is like, I can’t get anything done because there’s we’ll call it four or five other leaders that are always coming to him for different challenges or problems, not to mention what I’ll refer to as the line employees. And once I kind of said no, we need to break it up and each of you get five minutes with this individual every morning, and let’s just call it from eight o’clock to eight thirty. They each get five minutes to just kind of say, Here’s what’s going on, and here’s what’s next. Anything comes up,

Bob Roark: Yeah.

Chuck Mohler: they know that they’re going to talk to that individual at eight o’clock the next morning, and they can always report back. Hey, I don’t have an answer, but I’ll get it to you in twenty-four hours because I’ll have a chance. To follow up with them and clarify where I’m at. Now, it’s not a chance to solve all the problems, but at the same time they can set a time to solve or resolve the problems, but it helps them at least not be interrupted throughout the rest of the day from all these different people with one off questions.

Bob Roark: know, if I I was thinking about the ninety days sounds like a long time in a business, you know, ninety days. About how far into that ninety day stretch do they start going, something’s changing. About how long does that usually take?

Chuck Mohler: Well it depends on what aspect it you were working on or changing. Sometimes it’s three or four weeks and other times it takes the full ninety days before they start saying, okay, I’m I’m getting it. So yeah, no, it and and it’s that constant follow up and accountability. And so typically we’re working with them in workshops to where we’re touching base with them in person or or on Zoom every two weeks, not that there’s not communication in between, but at least a large block of time to say, Okay, how’s everyone come along with their their tasks and assignments of what they were working on towards that ninety day goal?

Bob Roark: I think we could go on on that topic for a while. But you know, I I was struck by just pick one thing. Pick one thing. Work on one thing. Got one thing done. Go, holy cow, maybe I can get another thing done, you know, kind of deal. But you know, the you know, the framing of covering converting a lifestyle business into a business enterprise, you know, in in for you, what does that mean? And what it’s not just an operational change. What has to change in the owner? You know, not just the PL for that conversion to happen.

Chuck Mohler: Okay, so if we go back to the idea of the lifestyle business, first to help clarify that, mm a lot of business owners will build and

Bob Roark: Yeah.

Chuck Mohler: push the growth of their business until they can get enough of a salary or enough of a distribution or the combination of both to where they can have the house, the second home, the boat, the plane, and carry on and they’re like, Okay, that I’m I’m I’m living the life I always wanted. And at that point, the business starts to plateau and they just carry on because they’re content or satisfied. And it can even get to a point and people get offended when I say, well, it can get into complacency and can even slip off and put stress on their lifestyle. And they can even, more often than not, they end up having the business

Bob Roark: I love it.

Chuck Mohler: and covering that lifestyle, co-mingling business and personal and the business’s funding. a lot of their lifestyle and trying to write off stuff. That’s different than someone that is truly trying to grow an enterprise and have it go well beyond their own personal needs or the needs of them and their partners. And they’re and they’re constantly trying to improve it and do it and refine it with that driving that push outside of of the personal dollars. And and when we talk about that and and not looking at the the PL, it’s it comes down to a mind. mindset paradigm shift where they realize what I’m doing is not as critical, why I’m doing it is important, and they g get back to their original purpose of why they got in their business outside of the dollars and cents. So whatever

Bob Roark: Mm.

Chuck Mohler: it is that they were they were really trying to achieve and accomplish to do it better than their last employer or wherever they came from to get their experience before they got into business. They had a purpose to do it beyond just the dollars. And when they go back to that paradigm shift and say, hey, I can do this bigger, better, faster, and they and we get them out of that day-to-day and actually wanting to teach and train and delegate and have a bigger team working and doing it, that’s when you can get into that enterprise and

Bob Roark: Yeah, yeah.

Chuck Mohler: have one or two individuals creating a bottleneck. So if they can see that, hey, I am creating a bottleneck and I can get it passed out and have a lot more leverage on what’s being accomplished, it’s that paradigm shift and that mindset shift is the biggest trigger and that conversion to go from the lifestyle to the business enterprise. They’ve got to want it before they can actually do it.

Bob Roark: That makes sense. Can’t give it to Yeah.

Chuck Mohler: That’s right. You can show how to do it once they’re ready for it. But until you get

Bob Roark: Mm.

Chuck Mohler: to to see that and I mean you can go go to the idea of and I mentioned it in the book, you know, a a ball hog with a young kids playing basketball. You get the one person that’s always gotta take the shot and always run around with the ball. That that’s not effective. When you can use the whole team, now you can become effective and win. And so sometimes it’s helping them just with that simple analogy of not being a ball hog that they can say, this can be bigger, better, faster than what it is, that that they open up for it really turning into an enterprise.

Bob Roark: You know, you’ve been described as providing life saving support. Give me, you know what’s this an example of a situation where you were called into a business and basically the life saving word actually fit, what was broken, what’d you do?

Chuck Mohler: the I guess what some people call life saving and what I call life saving are two different things. So

Bob Roark: All right.

Chuck Mohler: yeah, to me it’s it may not have been that big a deal and it’s an everyday occurrence ’cause you see it, but to them it it was refreshing new change or or life to them. And I think a lot of it is I would say the point that being able to listen and just sit there and Fill that empty chair that’s sitting across from their desk and hear what their personal challenges and trials are, either profre personally or professionally, and being able to work through that. Too often Business owners have all these professionals around them, they have all these employees and and staff around them. And no one everyone’s working on their own thing, but no one is stepping back and listening to what they’re really saying and hearing what they want and helping them achieve and accomplish that. And so when it’s when it’s sitting down and and doing that, whether it’s helping them open the next location or work through a financing deal or dealing with a a tough employee or interacting with a client that’s upset. It to to me it’s everyday stuff, but to that individual at that day and what they’re going with or dealing with a lawsuit or whatever it may be, because of my experience, my background, or or just being able to listen with them and and stepping back and saying, Okay, let’s let’s tackle this one step at a time. All of a sudden I’m a savior when I I just helped them walk through the steps one, two, three, that anybody else would have done the same. if if they would have stopped and listened to them and and gave them time and attention.

Bob Roark: Well, I I I suspect that all the stuff that you’ve learned through the years that you have a tendency to discount because you now know it. And then when

Chuck Mohler: That that’s that’s valid.

Bob Roark: You know, go like, well, I’ve seen this you know a bunch of times and the owner, it may be the only time ever. Or they just they just don’t recognize the you know, and and I think that’s that’s the wisdom that this podcast is attempting to to highlight is you know how you bring the experience into the table and help these owners out. You know, to that end you say you ask the difficult questions to verify the validity of ideas. What’s you know one particular difficult question you might ask that perhaps, I don’t know, another advisor won’t ask, and what do you typically see the reaction from the owner when you ask it?

Chuck Mohler: Ooh. I don’t know the

Bob Roark: Don’t make me

Chuck Mohler: I I don’t know if there’s one difficult question. it it’s once again I think it it comes a little bit back to that listening but clarifying what it is what’s the real challenge that they have and or what is the real opportunity that they’re looking for because sometimes they’re they have some shiny new object and it’s it’s verifying what is the real goal. so kind of an example and it’s an old one and it and it’s kind of small or silly in at least from my perspective or experience, but like you said, some people haven’t gone through it. Had a guy one time Come to me that had saved a a bunch of money and he wanted to buy a business, or actually, in this case, let’s go back to another one where he wanted to buy a lot and build a house and do a fix and flip type scenario. So you see these TV shows with the fix and flips and the residential houses. He’s like, Hey, I I want to do this. And I want to do it even more. I’m going I’m going to actually demo the whole house and rebuild the whole property from ground up. So rather than just putting on some paint and and lipstick, his idea was let’s just demo the whole thing and rebuild the whole thing. And then I’m going to go through and make my money and so forth. So kind of just walked him through, okay, here’s what the land’s going to cost or the the whole project’s in cost, here’s what the improvement costs are going to be. What do we think the market value of this finished new custom home is going to be? And once we do that, what kind of return are we going to get? Okay, so here’s our return number and how long is it going to take? Okay, and what do what’s the risk? He’s gotta put up all this capital, he’s gotta put up personal guarantees, he’s gotta line out all the work and and let’s just argumently for this discussion’s sake, say he can get in and get out in one year. Well, once we ran the math and went through all the calculations and the risk, he could have taken the same investment dollar and put it into a C D, had no risk.

Bob Roark: Yeah.

Chuck Mohler: No headache, no heartburn to to get the same return. And I was like, So why are you doing this? And we had to step it back and say, Well, I’m trying to grow my wealth so that then I can go do X. And I was like, with that return, let’s just go do X now and not put

Bob Roark: One.

Chuck Mohler: yourself through all this risk thinking that you’re going to make a a big home run because he hadn’t he was so hooked on the idea that he needed to get in with the latest. Proud of by build flip that

Bob Roark: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Chuck Mohler: he hadn’t run the math all the way through far enough to realize that his risk was too high, the return was too low for what he was looking at, and he could have been just as well off to move on to the next thing and skip that whole phase. And so it was just it it’s verifying and validating what the end goal was and it and his end goal was about three steps down. And once I got to that end goal, it was like, let’s skip a couple of these steps and just go right to that one. And it it was it was just totally shocking to him that someone would even present that or that he was that close to hitting end goal, but he was going to risk it all on something in between.

Bob Roark: You know, I think about the distraction factor. You know,

Chuck Mohler: Correct.

Bob Roark: if if that’s not your main business, then the distraction factor probably costs you more than even that little bit of a C D return. well for you

Chuck Mohler: Yeah, no, that’s that idea of staying focused.

Bob Roark: Yeah, you know, you were talking about airplanes and businesses. You know, the standard joke out in this country is about the time you see a farmer buy an airplane is about the time before they start raising cattle again and sell the airplane. Because nobody likes pulling cattle in the spring out in this country. But

Chuck Mohler: Right.

Bob Roark: yeah. tax minimization is part of the exit strategy. You cover it. Describe how the tax conversation changes. what owners are willing to do when it’s in the pre exit plan versus showing up at the end. What does that look like?

Chuck Mohler: You’d be amazed at the variety of perspectives that there are out there. There are there are some that will do absolutely every type of little thing that they can hear or find out about through Google or Facebook or whatever else, and they’re they’re constantly in the gray area of pushing limits. And then there’s others that are like, no, I’m going. I don’t like taxes, but I’m gonna pay my fair share and support what this country’s provided for me. So there there are some that it’s like it’s not worth the the paperwork, the brain damage, the effort, because they’re trying to get every nickel and dime and and they’re wasting more energy and professional fees than what they’re gonna get out of their their tax savings. And then there’s others that you try and offer it to on a silver platter, hey, you You can do A, B, and C and this is going to help you. You just have to follow with the a couple of these guidelines. And they’re like, I don’t even want to follow a couple of guidelines. Just what’s my tax bill and let me pay it? So it it’s shocking, depending on someone’s personality and where they’re they’re at, that there’s some that want to push the limit and there’s others that are saying, Hey, I just I just want to get my net dollar. I want Uncle Sam out of my life and I don’t want to do any type of of deferral, rollover, extra strategy, pre planning. So the the spectrum is wider than most people think and and you first gotta find out where they’re at on that bandwidth and then you

Bob Roark: Mm-hmm.

Chuck Mohler: start applying stuff whether whether you’re getting into charitable deductions or trusts or gifting or you know discounting. You know so there there’s There’s different ones and I don’t want to rattle off different tax codes, you know, from Depending on the energies and stuff, but it it There are options there, it’s just you first gotta find out where their comfort level is in pushing the limits or staying away from the line altogether.

Bob Roark: think that probably has something to do with whether they’ve ever been audited before. Might that that

Chuck Mohler: True.

Bob Roark: that usually erases some part of the dark gray area.

Chuck Mohler: No, I mean I’ve got I’ve got one right now. I’m working on a transaction that We are we showed him how you could you could do

Bob Roark: Yeah,

Chuck Mohler: a couple different things that would save a lot of money over in taxes. And he’s like, No, I don’t want to do it. And he’s never been an audit, he’s never had any issues, no compliance issues. I mean it’s a clean run company. And he’s just like I don’t I don’t want to ever be looking over my back and questioning whether I did something right.

Bob Roark: Mm-hmm.

Chuck Mohler: And I don’t want to wait for the down the road. Step up in basis or anything that’s going to happen if I live long enough to my kids to get it. I I’ve built

Bob Roark: Some

Chuck Mohler: I’ve built up my wealth. I’ve got enough. I’m gonna get out of this transaction with enough that I I’ve got more than my share of what I need. I just want to pay the taxes and move on and not not look over my shoulder. And it’s like okay, it’s your choice. I’m just here to guide

Bob Roark: Yeah. And it’s a choice. It’s a choice. Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck Mohler: you.

Bob Roark: You know, talk to me about the the the owner that came to you and had a lifestyle business and it got to be an enterprise. What changed in them and not just the financials? What did you observe?

Chuck Mohler: That was I’d say on that one, I would say that was the one where the first time that I had to hit the owner over the head with that ballhog analogy. He would not let anything happen without him cross-checking it, double checking it, going out after and redoing work. and he was frustrating everyone else in the company because he was always in the way. And once I got him to Drop the ball, let the team pick it up, and start running with it. That company has turned, let’s see, revenue have grown probably 15 times in the last five to eight years. So an employee count, you know, has gone we’re we’re over a hundred employees now when back then he only had fifteen or twenty. And so just turned it into a totally

Bob Roark: Mm-hmm.

Chuck Mohler: different operation once I was able to get him to not worry about his lifestyle and what he was doing and actually focus on helping everyone else grow and advance in the company that the company has just taken off.

Bob Roark: You know, y you would think that that would be a simple recognition.

Chuck Mohler: Well it it it it’s it’s not because it when you when a business gets started

Bob Roark: It’s not

Chuck Mohler: off and in the those first years and you’re only in the first few millions of of revenue, you’ve got your hand on who the employees are, who all the customers are, who’s what’s going on, whatever it is. And you’re and you’re afraid that if you don’t do it yourself or you don’t have real close hands on it that it that it’s going to fall apart. And it’s

Bob Roark: Yeah.

Chuck Mohler: it’s once you can really train and delegate and hold other people accountable that and you can leverage it, and now you’re dealing with a hundred people instead of ten people, that’s that’s life changing.

Bob Roark: Yeah. You know, on the other side of the coin, obviously without a naming anybody, an owner where the con the conversion didn’t happen. The numbers were right, plan was there, but the enterprise didn’t happen. What were you could are there early signs that you typically see?

Chuck Mohler: the one that I’m thinking is lack of focus. Too too many shiny objects, too many other things, numbers there, team there, everyone wanted to grow forward, but it was internal conflict of which way we’re going left or right and not being focused on and actually moving forward. And Enterprise never took off, never grasped it, and within six months I was saying we are done with this engagement

Bob Roark: Right.

Chuck Mohler: and let them go. It just if if you’re not gonna grab hold of it and do it, it it wasn’t worth worth the time to keep trying to push push something that they ultimately didn’t want. I mean they liked the idea, they just weren’t focused enough to keep moving forward. So it’s and and they had plenty of revenue, plenty of cash flow, plenty of activity, recently, you know, new financing, everything. So it wasn’t that they didn’t have the resources, they just couldn’t stay focused enough to push forward.

Bob Roark: Yeah. You wrote Unlocking the Door to Freedom, A Proven Path to Real Business Value and a Clearer Future. The title tells me a lot about how you think. What’s the door and what does that freedom actually look like to the owners you work with?

Chuck Mohler: The idea with unlocking the door to freedom is based on the idea that what do call it? Think of think of a business owner building their business one brick at a time, like a house, and they’re building it up and they’re just constantly building it up and around and so forth, similar to painting themselves in a corner, and they build it up and they forget to even install a door. So they have no way to get out of this structure that they built. And they too often get trapped in the business or in this house. And and the idea is helping them figure out where the doorway is and where that door is, and unlocking the door, we can crack it open, and now we got a door open of of options of they’ve built up the value, they’ve built up the wealth, and now it’s their choice. They now have that freedom of choice of whether they want to walk through the threshold. I’m not going to tell them that it’s time to sell or it’s time to pass it down to Johnny and Sally or whatever it is. It’s hey, let’s let’s build it up to where there’s a functioning operating thing and whether it becomes a legacy business or something that gets passed off and sold off to private equity or whatever the case may be. It’s what do you have an option and how do we help create that option and then you then have the freedom to choose what happens. So that’s kind of the the mindset of the unlocking the door to freedom and what that door is and how we work with owners both in the business and personally to be prepared for that that transition.

Bob Roark: You you’ve built Eagle Corporate Advisors to cover value growth, exoplanning, and assist with MA under one roof. What does that firm look like in five years if it works the way you want it to?

Chuck Mohler: it’s larger. I’m trying to bring on more advisors. I’m trying to bring on more clients. gets to a point to where I’ve got the freedom to walk out the door myself. ten years down the road. not ready for that yet or not interested in that because I’m enjoying what I’m doing, but I want to I want to be able to expand what I’m doing in such a way that There’s people that have the knowledge and and can use what I’ve learned in more of a repeatable methodical way so that we can unlock a lot more doors than just the the few that I can handle myself or with the small team that I’ve got now.

Bob Roark: Eating your own cooking.

Chuck Mohler: That’s right. No, and I and that’s where I get in trouble with with current clients is you’re always traveling and gone and playing, Chuck. And I like, Well, someone’s gotta set the example for you so that you know how to get out and enjoy your life. So that’s why I can keep doing it, is because I I’m out of town at least twice a month and I I play a lot more than a lot of people, and that’s just because of that enjoying what I’m doing and that balance and and I use the excuse that I gotta accept set the example for the clients of of how to run towards something else and not always be on the treadmill.

Bob Roark: You know, when when you’re out on an adventure, do you think that makes you better when you come back?

Chuck Mohler: by far. Just just the freedom and the clarity of mind and what I’m doing and the the excitement and the drive to go back and do it again, whether it’s a different activity or do something else, it’s yeah, you don’t you don’t want to get trapped in the daily routine too much in the grind. Especially

Bob Roark: Yeah. Yeah.

Chuck Mohler: when you’re getting to a point in your life that you wanna you wanna be across that bridge and enjoy your your family, your friends, your service, whatever it is it is that you like to dedicate your time to, it it’s it’s heartbreaking when when people say they they’re tired and worn out and they don’t have an option. They don’t have the choice to be able to move on.

Bob Roark: You know, I I the thing I often think about is the intellectual property that you’ve earned through time between your ears, right?

Chuck Mohler: Yes.

Bob Roark: And you know if something happens to you and it’s not passed forward, it just stops with you. You know,

Chuck Mohler: Correct.

Bob Roark: so you put all that time, effort, money, and whatever to get there. You know, do you think about, you know, as you grow your firm being able to institutionalize or record or pass forward the IP that you’ve earned?

Chuck Mohler: yeah, no, and and have definitely been working on that.

Bob Roark: Mm-hmm.

Chuck Mohler: I’ve had my oldest son working me with me now for five and a half years and he does

Bob Roark: Mm-hmm.

Chuck Mohler: outstanding w working with clients and there’s clients that are like, Here, let us do it. If Chuck wants to show up to a quarterly meeting, then then great. And so yeah, and everything from the book, you know, that’s starting to get it on paper to start sharing it with other people and so yeah, no, we we spent a lot of effort documenting stuff, following through, trying to create stuff to where we’ve got what do you call it, canned educational material presentations that it’s easy to then walk other advisors through so that they can start teaching it the same way and understand why and how so that it doesn’t all die with me.

Bob Roark: No. You know, for someone if they’re listening, they’ve got a privately held business in the Las Vegas area or or frankly anywhere, and they’ve been running it for lifestyle too long and it has the value gap, or at least they might recognize that it does, where do they find you? How do they reach out to you, Chuck?

Chuck Mohler: probably the easiest is is the website, Eagle Corporate Advisors dot com. there’s my email, and the Chuck at Eagle Corporate Advisors dot com. There’s you know, LinkedIn looking looking up Chuck Muller there out of Las Vegas, you know, so all all your standard places that we can find each other. Or

Bob Roark: Okay. And a shameless plug.

Chuck Mohler: Or or yeah, y pulling up pulling up the book. Yeah,

Bob Roark: There you go. Yep.

Chuck Mohler: the unlocking the door to freedom, find it on Amazon or it’ll be out here on Audible here real soon. and then there’s contact informations and QR codes in that to track us down.

Bob Roark: You know, f f for the owner that worked with you and came in running basically a job, lifestyle business, and came out with the real enterprise eighteen months after they exited their business, what does that person’s life look like? Wouldn’t

Chuck Mohler: There I will call there’s two different examples or extremes. There’s the ones that have done it and they’re still running the business today. So one

Bob Roark: Okay.

Chuck Mohler: that I’m thinking of offhand went through the process and they sold to a a private equity backed group and part of the he was young enough that he decided to stay on and it’s been five years and he’s still working. the day job and he just happened to have pulled some eggs out of the basket and carrying on with his life like normal. And it’s been a very simple, friendly engagement with him and and the new owner and

Bob Roark: Mm-hmm.

Chuck Mohler: has enjoyed it. Another one went total opposite direction and was out day one, never in interaction with the old employees, never interaction with anything else. And Taking trips, cruises with his wife, playing with the grandkids, just kind of enjoying life. Yet at the same time within nine months, took some funds and went and opened an bought another little business and and and is

Bob Roark: Yep.

Chuck Mohler: checking on that business and probably meets with them a couple times a month just to have something to follow up on. Not heavily engaged, but But still took a little bit of those eggs and and went and had it again. So it’s the the people that are in the you’ve got Wall Street investors and you got Main Street investors. And even though you get to put a lot of it into Wall Street, they still go back to their home stomping grounds and put a little bit of money in Main Street

Bob Roark: Thank you.

Chuck Mohler: to do it themselves or to help someone else and kind of track it and mentor on the back end.

Bob Roark: Well, Chuck, I tell you, I really appreciate your time and you know sharing your views and observations and insights. And you know, and thank you for the book again.

Chuck Mohler: No problem, thank you.

Bob Roark: you bet. This episode valuable, useful. And whether you’re a founder pre or post exit or the professional serving that business owner, wisdom and experience in here with Chuck. With that being said, this is the Exit series. If you know of a founder is sold or is about to, or a broker, an attorney, or a value accelerator. who’s been across the table at the closing or about to be, send them this episode and subscribe wherever you listen. And we’ll see you next time. Chuck, take care.

Chuck Mohler: Thank you.